Am I being ripped off ?

A couple of months ago my Vauxhall Combo van refused to start when I
was parked in the middle of nowhere. Road rescue got me started and
told me that the starter motor had failed and that I should drive
directly to a garage where I could get it fixed, because I wouldn't be
able to start under my own steam until it was fixed. I did and it was.

Then last month the same happened again. I called out the garage who
fixed it first time and they took the van away and fixed the problem.
They said it was the 'contact switch' and my new starter motor needed
reconditioning. A second bill has just arrived for £230.

If I were to miss an underlying problem in my own work so the finish
work failed, then I would not expect the customer to pay for my
mistake. I don't know much about vehicle mechanics so I am paying the
garage for their expertise and they want me to pay in full twice over.
They have now told me that a failed contact switch is "quite a common
fault with Vauxhalls".

Am I being unreasonable to expect a substantial discount on the second
bill?

Anna

 

No, Go and slap the service manager.

Explain it to him in a letter and ask for some satisfactory resolution
before you take action.

I'm sure he'll buckle.

Andy

 

Yes, you are being ripped off. I'm not totally clear on what
they mean by 'contact switch' - this could mean your ignition
switch, or (more likely) the solenoid contacts.

Either way, it's clear that first time they replaced the starter
motor it wasn't the cause of the fault. And why a new starter
motor would need reconditioning after a month's use is anyone's
guess.

Before paying the bill, ask them for a full breakdown of the
work which was done, and the reasons for it, during the first
and second visit. You are perfectly entitled to that. Then
either take it to someone you trust, or post it here for comments.

 

Take it up with trading standards, you are being taken advantage of because
your a woman.

Dave

 

I second this advice.

I suppose it is possible you could need the second chargeable job but it is
extremely unlikely.

What sort of garage is it?

A main dealer ought to buckle easily if you talk to the Service Manager. If
you get no joy there write to the Managing Director and copy the letter to
the Service Manager.

If it is a smaller garage ask them about it. You could suggest they get a
second opinion/justification or discuss the matter with a Vauxhall Main
Dealer and then talk to the dealer yourself.

--

Alan


New & used Vauxhall cars & vans, servicing, repairs & parts
www.steeles.co.uk

Vauxhall CD players & handbooks
http://www.stores.ebay.co.uk/vauxhallradiosales

 

I wouldn't say that. I've known blokes who admit not knowing how to change a
wheel. I reckon you could try it on with a good percentage of people
nowadays and get away with it.

 

I would also say yes, you're being ripped off, but only maybe. It's
important to know the background of the original replacement starter motor.

If you bought a new starter motor from the garage and it only lasted a month
before it needed reconditioning, then the garage should go back to their
supplier and insist on a free replacement, and the charges for their labour
to swap it again should go to their supplier, not to you. I can't see how
any reasonable business could argue this point. It isn't your fault they
supplied a sub-standard part.

If you bought a used starter motor first time round, then it might only have
had a short warranty and it could possibly require reconditioning now.
However, the garage must have told you that when they first supplied it - if
they didn't, then it's reasonable for you to assume that it was a new part
and would have twelve months warranty as any new goods sold in the UK must
have by law. This applies unless you agreed beforehand that they could
supply you a used motor, and their original bill should have shown (a) that
it was not new, and (b) how long the warranty would last. I would say that
if their bill didn't show it was used and/or short warranty, then the
12-month warranty should be assumed.

Another caveat is if you sourced the starter motor yourself, and passed it
to the garage to be fitted. In that case, if it goes wrong, I would say
they're fully entitled to charge you for their time in diagnosing, removing
and replacing the starter motor.

I must admit I don't know the Combo van, but even for a reconditioned
starter motor the price seems a little steep, and I don't know how much the
original bill was. Last year I bought a recon starter motor for my Vauxhall
Firenza (relevance: same engine as the Bedford CF van with 2.3 OHC, quite a
beefy starter motor) and the guy at Partco was quite apologetic when he had
to charge me £110 plus VAT. Also I had a starter motor replaced at an Audi
main agent on my old Audi coupe, and that also didn't cost me £230, even at
Audi main dealer labour rates.

It would be interesting to hear how you go on with this.

I must stress I have no legal knowledge, but a reasonable experience in
arguing with people in the past.

Mike.

 

My 2 cents on this one as an autoelectrician of some 12 years or so is that
the most likely cause of failure of both of these starter motors is the
ignition switch having stuck resulting in the motor being kept engaged with
the engine after the key has been released. if the garage checked to ensure
that the crank wire went dead as the key is released after finding the first
one burnt out then there is little else they could have done. It wouldn't be
common practice to just change the ignition switch on the off chance that it
was faulty. They are perhaps guilty of not making you aware of the possible
causes of the original failure and the possibility of it reoccurring, the
fitter will in all likelyhood have not been aware of the cause of failure of
the original unit, assessment of this is beyond the capabilities of the
majority of fitters these days.

 

IMO you shouldn't have to pay at all. Get trading standards involved.


--
________________________
Conor Turton

ICQ:31909763
________________________

 

Not knowing the full facts but:
If they were ordered (by you) first time to find the starting fault, and
it has re-occured, then they should really do it free of charge, or very
cheaply.

If however you took the car in, and told them it needed a new starter
motor first time (as you had been advised by the breakdown people), then
no, they are not to blame for subsequent failure of other things.
All they were ordered to do was fit a starter motor, and they did it.
Sounds like 'C H' is right about this in his post above, as your 2nd
starter has burnt out.
Alan.

 

Really... last time i look statutary right where 28days, some things arnt
designed to last longer,


time in diagnosing, removing

at

if its the 1.7D it sounds about right, the motor is expensive, and its an
absolute PIG to get at!

 

Thanks for your comments everyone.

The jury is still out as to whether the charge is reasonable. It was a
new, not a reconditioned starter motor. I wrote to the garage querying
the second invoice (a local garage) and they replied suggesting that I
speak to a main dealer. CH seems to come down in their favour.

The invoices have quite a lot of detail on them which I don't
understand, so at the weekend when I'm home again and have the
invoices by me, I'll post the detail and maybe someone will be able to
shed light.

Anna

 

Really... last time i look statutary right where 28days, some things arnt

I was under the impression any new goods sold here had to have at least 12
months warranty, however I've just looked on the dti site at the sale of
goods and in fact there's no requirement for any warranty at all - it's at
the manufacturers discretion and in addition to your statutory rights. Sorry
for the confusion.

Mike

 

I've just read up on this on the dti web site and you're quite right.
There's some confusion over what is a reasonable time in which to reject
goods, but other than than any makers warranty is a bonus.

Mike.

 

Don't forget that the parts they take off are still yours and not theirs
they should let you have them back as proof that they have changed
something!!!
Rich

 

There appears to be some confusion here.

The Retailers Handbook, whatever that is, is probably written with the Sale
of Goods Act in mind, but would carry little wieght.

The Act lays down NO minimum or maximum warranty periods. It isn't actually
concerned with warranties at all. It simply seeks to make RETAILERS
responsible for the products thet sell. "Fit for purpose" and of
"merchantable quality".

The periods during which the provisions of the Act may be enforced are
decided by case law. And all County Courts are bound by decisions in higher
courts (The High Court) in this instance. They have ruled that new vehicles
must be rejected within a few weeks, following major problems, or the
Dealer may insist on a repair.

A few months and up to a year would be considered reasonable for a product
to last, for most other things. The reason that longer than a year is
unusual (from the Courts point of view) is that the manufacturers can
reasonably argue that it is difficult to accurately ascertain the operating
conditions over an extended period.

All other warranties are at the discretion of the Retailer or Manufacturer.
They are enforceable by law because they form part of the contract you make
when you purchase the goods. You cannot sign away your legal rights (by
small print, for example) but you may reduce your rights if you accept a
repair instead of replacement.

Second hand goods are covered too. But if you buy something "As seen and
tested" that's it. Test it because you will not have much comeback.
Auctions are the same. You get an hour to discover mis-leading statements
or major undisclosed faults. Don't waste it.

steveb

 

Any item sold in UK has 14 days to be returned if customer is not happy with
it. Most items are actually 28 days. THIS IS IF YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND!

However, if an item has "failed to last a reasonable amount of time" as seen
by a "reasonable person" you have every right to a replacement with no extra
cost or full refund. A guarantee is not worth the paper it is written on.
This is said with 7 years retail experience.

 

No, it's not. If you change your mind you generally have no legal basis
for a refund. There are exceptions, such as some financial-related
products or certain forms of sale. Many retailers may give you a
refund out of goodwill, though.

R.

 

This is complete rubbish, however many years you have as a retailer.

There is no obligation for a seller to respect the fact a customer has
changed his/her mind. They do this as an act of "goodwill"

Neither the 14 days you mention, nor the 28 days has ANY significance at
all in law. If you think it has, please show us the references

steveb

 

You are correct..... Most retailers offer refunds in the event you get home
and simply do not like it.....

however they are not legally obliged to unless its faulty or unfit for
purpose....